01.11.05
Posted in culture at 12:37 pm by
Due to the nature of a blog–that nature being that readers come and go and don’t read all of one’s previous posts–I think that it might be helpful to explain something all over again. I’ve received a number of comments about how I can call myself a Christian and swear so heartily. These comments range widely in their tone but the thrust of their intent is this aforementioned issue.
So, how come I use the fuck-word, write the words: shit, ass, damn, etc? This is a fair question. First of all, let me explain the reasons that aren’t correct. I don’t think it’s a way for me to express a bad image. I don’t do it solely on my blog (ask Jen, I swear regularly at home.)
I use these words because it doesn’t make any sense not to use them. Their vulgarity is completely a cultural construct. These words don’t derogate any group of people. Most often they refer to fecal matter or sexual function. I don’t believe that limiting my vocabulary to words deemed culturally acceptable makes me any more holy, and I don’t believe that granting myself access to a different range of verbal discourse than most Christians makes me any less holy.
Sometimes, darn or dang is just not the right word to use in a situation; the word ’shit’ is. In that case, I use the word shit. Now, out of respect for people I will curtail my language in cultural situations that demand a different set of linguistic rules; however, at this blog I have the luxury of determining the set of cultural linguistic mores by which I wish to abide.
I don’t believe that communication is an unimportant thing. It’s not a willfull disregard for language that’s brought me to this understanding of language. The study of communication is near and dear to my heart–in fact, I’m currently a graduate student studying communication. Words and their meaning are very important to me. By using a different gamut of words–including ones culturally deemed to be ‘curse words’–I hope to better express my thoughts and feelings.
Tomorrow, in volume two of the cussing monologue I’ll tackle those words that I DON’T say, and talk a bit about why I think they’re inappropriate.
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Posted in culture at 12:37 pm by
Due to the nature of a blog–that nature being that readers come and go and don’t read all of one’s previous posts–I think that it might be helpful to explain something all over again. I’ve received a number of comments about how I can call myself a Christian and swear so heartily. These comments range widely in their tone but the thrust of their intent is this aforementioned issue.
So, how come I use the fuck-word, write the words: shit, ass, damn, etc? This is a fair question. First of all, let me explain the reasons that aren’t correct. I don’t think it’s a way for me to express a bad image. I don’t do it solely on my blog (ask Jen, I swear regularly at home.)
I use these words because it doesn’t make any sense not to use them. Their vulgarity is completely a cultural construct. These words don’t derogate any group of people. Most often they refer to fecal matter or sexual function. I don’t believe that limiting my vocabulary to words deemed culturally acceptable makes me any more holy, and I don’t believe that granting myself access to a different range of verbal discourse than most Christians makes me any less holy.
Sometimes, darn or dang is just not the right word to use in a situation; the word ’shit’ is. In that case, I use the word shit. Now, out of respect for people I will curtail my language in cultural situations that demand a different set of linguistic rules; however, at this blog I have the luxury of determining the set of cultural linguistic mores by which I wish to abide.
I don’t believe that communication is an unimportant thing. It’s not a willfull disregard for language that’s brought me to this understanding of language. The study of communication is near and dear to my heart–in fact, I’m currently a graduate student studying communication. Words and their meaning are very important to me. By using a different gamut of words–including ones culturally deemed to be ‘curse words’–I hope to better express my thoughts and feelings.
Tomorrow, in volume two of the cussing monologue I’ll tackle those words that I DON’T say, and talk a bit about why I think they’re inappropriate.
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Lara said,
January 11, 2005 at 1:37 pm
Most Christians I know aren’t afraid of these words. Could it be perhaps generational rather than something based on a certain ‘religion’?
Brandon said,
January 11, 2005 at 2:16 pm
I don’t know, Lara. In the Christian circles I’ve run in many of these words (fuck and shit in particular) are taboo, even amongst my generational peers. Perhaps, I just run in the wrong Christian circles.
Lara said,
January 11, 2005 at 2:49 pm
#1. You might like this blog : http://bornagainliberal.blogspot.com/
#2. I need to invite you to a party with all my Christian friends next time I’m in Philadelphia. But you live in Michigan or something? Well, still….it’d be worth the drive. Coolest people ever.
Benjamin said,
January 11, 2005 at 4:16 pm
I say fuck’em if they can’t take a joke….
Adam said,
January 11, 2005 at 6:53 pm
It is definately not a generational thing. Many of my peers think I’m a filthy heathen when I say Shit around them. Which in turn encourages me to say it more often and in less appropriate situations.
Benjamin
I concur whole fucking heartily. (I’m pretty sure “fucking” in this case was a bit superflous.)
Resident Atheist said,
January 11, 2005 at 8:27 pm
Maybe it’s a generational and a regional thing? I’ve lived on the West Coast my whole life and just about all the people my age, however conservative, curse like sailors when the mood strikes them, whereas my parents’ generation tends to be a little more reserved (read: saying ’shit’ is equivalent to purchasing box seat tickets to hell).
rick said,
January 11, 2005 at 10:06 pm
I like you even though you cuss like a fuckin’ sailor.
Rick
Abdul-Salaam said,
January 12, 2005 at 12:24 am
Not too long ago the topic of vulgarities sprung up with a British friend of mine. We were discussing linguistics, if memory serves. He told me that most of our (English speaking world) vulgarities were actually readily accepted Saxon words or earlier. When the Normans entered England, the aristocracy considered much of the local language as vulgar. He felt thatit was a case of the language of the “common people” being replaced by the “proper” language of the aristocracy. I have not varified any of this with anyone other than my British mate, but given that he’s a speaker of the mother tongue, who am I to question? So, you say shit, I say feces…….
mainsheet42 said,
January 12, 2005 at 12:59 am
Fuckin’ A, bubba! You’re right on, RA
I was listening to an interview with rapper/movie star Ice Cube (formerly with NWA) on Fresh Air last night. He said something in this regard that struck me as right on target. Paraphrasing, he said that he’s told his kids not to use foul language when adults are present. But when they’re around their peers, go ahead … they’re going to do it anyway.
Personally, I know who I can drop an occasional f-bomb around and who I can’t.
Audrey
andii said,
January 12, 2005 at 12:40 pm
Thanks for this. I’ve commented further at my blog http://nouslife.blogspot.com/2005/01/swearing.html
I think that a lot of it has to do with culture. On the other hand it is interesting to note how fashions in swearing change. Quite clearly at the turn of the 20th century words like ‘damn’ were pretty heavy duty -which surprised me a a child because quite clearly they were just a bunch of phonemes to express crossness with something. Words that were considered heavy duty swearing when I was young [eg ‘bloody’ and ’shit’ -this is in the UK] now seem to have a similar status to ‘blimey’ and ‘blast’ [both of which were probably ‘racy’ in their day] and we’re finding new [to me] words like ‘motherfuck~’ and cognates [apologies] to carry force. Now this ongoing evolution seems to point to a factor that is worth thinking about: power to shock; once usage wears it out they start being relatively acceptable and more ‘respectable’ people use them and so shocking enough words have to be coined to ‘exclude’ [?is that what’s happening?] ‘classier’ people …
Picking up from the comment on Saxon and Norman: it’s interesting to note that linguistic minority languages often use the swearwords from the ‘dominant’ language: in Basque the swearwords are Spanish for example; it may have been that the Saxons used Norman French swearwords. perhaps.
Cross culturally there are interesting issues to be looked at: I am told that Russian, at least in the Soviet era, used ‘hell’ [khui] as one of the worst swearwords; atheist regime and all. Swedish is reputed to use words connected ith the devil to swear with …
It seems to come down to what counts as shocking to the ‘respectable’ in English that is the key factor.
H. Kent Craig said,
January 15, 2005 at 8:25 am
I truly believe that when I am in deep prayer I often speak with literal angels in heaven and one thing that has often surprised me about angels in heaven, especially my friend and the Warrior Arch Michael, is that he cusses worse than a fucking sailor, at least in “angel-ese”.
Jesus hung out with the sinners, not the saints, and I’m sure Our Lord himself probably uttered a curse word or two in Aramaic (”g’ach labin” or “dirty donkey fucker?”) when He was incarnate. I just can’t see Our Lord, The Ultimate Human Being, not calling the moneychangers at The Temple a bunch of money-grubbing sons-of-bitches to their faces, even though The Scriptures don’t exactly record him as saying that!
garth said,
January 19, 2005 at 4:41 am
Now this is a post I have been thinking about doing and I am really glad to see the dialogue. We will we drop the odd word around the house, more out fun than anything else but scripturally I find its all about offensiveness…”offensive language”. Language itself cannot be intrinsically evil but ‘amoral’, so if it is used in company where ther no offence is taken then it does not become offensive.
I think this is something that evangelicals will not readily understand.
franklin said,
January 23, 2005 at 7:05 pm
as to the swearing thing
it seems to me it is not the correct focus to debate whether it is right or wrong, good or bad for a christian to use,or what your location might be.
i think it is more a matter of selfishness and self centeredness or rather considering yourself before others.
which is the root of most of mans personal and social problems.
graham said,
February 9, 2005 at 8:36 pm
Halle-fucking-lujah! Spot on.
I just don’t get the issue that some Christians have with swearing. Whenever it’s brought up I ask them to tell me which of the following words are okay:
poo — crap — shit — doggy-do — dogshit — bullshit.
Their answers are always different and there’s never any logic to it!
Dave said,
February 10, 2005 at 1:12 pm
My dad was a hard swearing marine so I was taught to swear like he did. I’ve never had a hang up about fuck swearing but few Christians seem able to cope with my honesty. Good to know someone else is as honest.
Dr M E Hanson said,
May 2, 2005 at 3:30 am
The word Shit is a noun. In common use it describes an unacceptable situation or result. It has nothing to do with God’s Name.
Dr m E Hanson
Tony said,
June 17, 2005 at 4:50 am
What a good topic.. Just today, I had some old lady telling me that saying, “What the Hell?” was swearing or unacceptable language. I am 29 and I see nothing wrong with it. Maybe I am crazy, but how is “HELL” a swear word. LOGIC dictates that if HELL is a swear word, HEAVEN would be also. Now, if that aint silly, I don’t know what is.
BY THE WAY, God DOES say shit in the Bible on numerous occassions. Of course, if you ask someone who does not like the word “shit”, they will tell you the greek/hebrew translates into “poo” or “horse menure”, etc.. The point is GOD says SHIT in the Bible atleast 3 TIMES, as I recall studying up on this..
IN OTHER WORDS, if GOD can say it, I can SAY it too!
I don’t know. Man, every time I really study up on something in the Bible, I find the common viewpoint is erred.. Here is yet another example..
13strong said,
December 16, 2005 at 4:16 pm
Just to respond to an above post. The Basques use Spanish swearwords because Basque (Euskera) was banned under Franco, meaning that an entire generation of Basques never learned to speak it. When Franco left power, the Basques institutionalised the re-learning of the Basque language amongst the population. Unfortunately, because it was official and insitutionalised (standardised if you will), the swearing was left out.
Basques from remote villages where the Basque continued to be spoken apparently have their own exclusively local swearwords.
Pat said,
February 20, 2006 at 3:17 am
Pat
Feb.20 11:52 pst
A couple of things we can ask ourselves about the language choices we make every time we speak that I think pretty much sum up a Christian philosophy of language use are:
1. Does my language bring glory to God?
2. Is it meant to offend the hearers?
3. Am I using profane or offensive language to cover up my ignorance?
4. Am I using ” adult” language to sound cool or to fit in with the crowd?
5. If the Lord himself walked into the room, would my speech change?
6. If I wouldn’t say it to my grandma, should I say it at all?
It took many years for the Lord to deliver me from swearing. I spent three years in the Army, there are not swear words I don’t know. But now, when I hit my finger with a hammer, the swear word is not what comes to my mind first. Praise God for this victory. I am very nearly to the point where I can chose to honor God with all that I say. What a liberating feeling. God is good.
father Ted said,
March 7, 2006 at 9:26 pm
At
http://www.usingenglish.com/phprint.php
is a very simple definition;
“The unacceptable and rude words of a language are known as the Swear Words , or bad language. They include the strongest and most offensive words; stronger than slang and colloquial language.”
If the words that cited above were not swear words in our society, other words probably would be. Impolite words seem in general to be part of “all” societies, and therefore some words are chosen or invented to be those words. You give many reasons for not accepting these words as wrong. I think the bottom line is much simpler, the real wrong is to be impolite. Whatever words are chosen by your society to be impolite…… are impolite. You can choose to impolite, or you can choose to be polite.
Terry Chambers said,
March 11, 2006 at 11:00 pm
James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
We will answer for every word we speak, unless forgiven by grace through prayer abd asking.
THE LINE BETWEEN BIBLE CHRISTIANITY AND THE NEW WORLDLY CHRISTIANITY IS MORE BLURRED THAN EVER. The original writer is obviously spiritually insane and deceived.
Professing themselves to wise, they became as fools. How childish and moronic.
danielle white said,
April 23, 2006 at 7:18 pm
fuck cunt hsit ass nigar bitch whore i said that in school, why did they get mad
Diggadee said,
April 23, 2006 at 8:42 pm
Oh, Terry. It makes me sad to see you succumb to cook-book literalism. Please go back and look at the context of your comforting little aphorism (James 3:10).
It’s not about dirty words, swearing or even the kind of “cursing” you seem to think it’s about. (It’s about bickering between Christians. The writers and many editors of James have been trying over the centuries to make the point that if Christians can be nice toward God, they should figure out how to be nice to each other.)
If what you want is this kind of literal absolutism, you’re better off reading the Daily Horoscope instead of the Bible. Finding a “rule” about cussing in your favorite version of the Holy Cookbook is, in the end, an insane and deceptive pursuit.
Jay said,
August 31, 2006 at 9:40 am
Clearly you are living what many would call “Carnal Christianity” which is no Christianity at all. Stop trying to fit in the world with words and such. It won’t matter how intellectual of a conversation we have, the point is you just won’t let go of your sin. You are still leaving parts of your life for yourself to be the master of, for example: What words are right and which ones are not. It is clear that people use profanity not as just any other word, but the tone and the way they throw it out is much different than any other words. A Christian is someone who surrenders their life to the Lord, and you are not willing to let go of that sin for whatever reason. If you want to be a Christian and part of the world, then know you are a part of the world, but you are no Christian. Let go of your sin. I’m not perfect and I struggled with this problem and others. Sorry if I accused you of things that are not true. Humble yourself before the Lord. The problem here is not the use of profanity, it is your innabilty to realize that we are all criminals before God and we need to give our lives to Him and live as Jesus did. I know whatever I have said here will probably get twisted… but I pray you may be able to read it as it is.
Brandon said,
September 3, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Jay,
You’ve given me no possible way to engage you in debate without you being able to claim the higher, more moral, ground. As such, I have no other recourse than to dismiss your opinion out of hand as lunacy. Tis’ a shame some Christians must cavort around talking about which words are holy and which words aren’t but don’t even have the courtesy to engage in dialectic according to ethical rules.
But…then again, you’ll probably just accuse me of being overly academic because you can’t pick up a fucking dictionary long enough to figure out what dialectic means.
Shalom,
Brandon
mike said,
September 4, 2006 at 5:12 pm
hmm. i am not sure if this will add anything to the conversation (or lack of it) but i will put in my 2 cents - seeing that others have regardless of the logic of their comments.
one of my degrees is in communications - rhetoric as my profs called it. the first thing i learned is that language usage is contextual. in some contexts the word FUCK is not appropriate - for example, if i am in a court room i probably don’t wish to offend the judge and jury so i would not wish to use the word FUCK. however, on the farm were i grew up (the context) the word FUCK wasn’t offensive to anyone. the ability to swear well (that is, to use the right words at the right time and string them together appropriately) was part of the culture.
now, i can see someone saying that as Christians we should not be like the culture. that is true, but often falsely applied. i am yet to meet a christian who thinks cussing is wrong (ostensibly because it is not being separate from the culture) who doesn’t also vote republican and isn’t a disciple of the free market. do i have to explain the hypocrisy in that? how is it that folks can say that cussing - which really harms no one, not really, is bad and “carnal” yet they have no problem with partizen politics or particularly supporting a party that is gung hoe for war? war actually DOES harm people.
now, “carnal.” if you want to talk about someone being “worldly” or not being separate from the culture - drop the fucking neoplatonic dualism that we got from that god-damn paganized theology of Aquinas who used platonic and Aristotelian categories. it is the world that makes the distinction between “flesh” and “spirit” not the bible. it was the gnostics who believed that the “spiritual” was good and the “carnal” was bad. your bible and mine both say that all creation - the material world including your flesh and my flesh are good. it is the world that denegrates the flesh - that is why it is so easy to kill babies and enemy combatants and old people on life support. that is why sex is seen as merely a pleasurable act as opposed to a sacrimental act.
i will stop there.
now who the fuck is worldly?
Kevin said,
September 6, 2006 at 8:29 am
Clearly you are living what many would call “Carnal Christianity” which is no Christianity at all. Stop trying to fit in the world with words and such.Many scholars will tell you that the original text of the Bible had words like shit and fuck in it. The King James Version has words like whore, prick, and piss, which many people today consider to be swearing. Perhaps God needs to have her mouth washed out with soap?
Toad said,
October 6, 2006 at 11:45 am
Thanks, Pat and Terry, for bringing Bible perspectives to this issue. So many of these posts are promoting godless and carnal values.
My comment, even though it will anger many: We have to embrace what God says on the issue of swearing/filthy language:
James 3:10 (quoted by Terry): “Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, THESE THINGS OUGHT NOT SO TO BE”.
Quite frankly, neither your view, nor mine, matters. Just follow His view, if you want to obey the Spirit of God. Simple. No debate. No confusion.
Brandon said,
October 8, 2006 at 5:01 pm
Toad,
It’s not so much that you’re unpopular as much as that you’re a tool of the man, that you’re wrong, and that you’ve completely failed to address any of my points.
But, you’re right about one thing. Your view doesn’t matter.
shelly said,
October 8, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Some of you are fucking delusional, IMO. Once again, CONTEXT!
“Cursing” in that verse is not tantamount to swearing. It’s talking about wishing evil on someone else (in the case of the passage, other believers).
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/curse
Personally, I don’t care.
UR4given said,
October 9, 2006 at 12:35 pm
We seem to fall into two camps here…ones who in 2nd grade were the first ones to introduce “swear” words to our friends and be the “coolest”…and then those in 2nd grade who covered their ears, went home and told “mommy”, and who have never had an adequate verbal outlet for rage and daily human emotions…and feel proud of it.
the swan said,
October 10, 2006 at 3:56 pm
Excellent debate here, chums.
Bakhtin in “Rabelais and his World” is useful here I think. Of “Gargantua” and the culture of Carnival he talks about how the use of what we call in Scotland “bawdry” is regenerative:
“To degrade an object does not imply merely hurling it into a void of non-existence, into absolute destruction, but to hurl it down to the reproductive lower stratum, the zone in which conception and a new birth take place. Grotesque realism knows no other level; it is the fruitful earth and the womb. It is always conceiving.”
It sounds healthy to me as a way of pricking pretension and it smacks of the resurrection.
William said,
October 29, 2006 at 8:23 pm
Where does it end? Is it also OK to drink? What about taking illegal drugs? Is sex outside of marriage OK? Which parts of the Bible are you going to choose to ignore and which are you going to follow?
…and for the person who made the crack about Republicans being gung ho for war, maybe they should read the Old Testament and see how many times God told His people to go wipe out other people. The current war in Iraq must be won. It’s completely about religion and freedom. Muslims are trying to control the world. They’ve gained the country of France. Watch how that country becomes completely controlled by Muslims in the next few years.
denise said,
October 31, 2006 at 11:25 pm
holy cow, Brandon, who are these people who comment on your blog? pretty scary.
I worked for a too-conservative Christian college for years, and it seemed to me that folks split along the lines of those who believe “purity” has some salvific effect, or makes them better candidates for sitting at the right hand of God, or makes them simply “better” people than they would be if they were less “pure.” And then there are the people who would meet Bono or Bill Clinton for a beer in a heartbeat, and would see that as an experience of fellowship. Does “purity” make someone closer to or more acceptable to God?
One of my all-time favorite authors is Robert Farrar Capon– have you read? Parables of Grace, final chapter, the Pharisee and the Publican. Capon’s idea is that any good behavior on our part can actually keep us from understanding that grace is one-sided on God’s part. I don’t know if I’m saying this well. I know better that the first half of my Christian experience was filled with sermons calling me to “be good like me,” and when I heard the first sermon beginning with, “if you’re a sinner like me, maybe you wonder about these things, too,” well, that was a radical shift, and I felt deeply at home, and that’s the denomination I’ve stuck with, a denomination of sinners Jesus would enjoy greatly.
The discussion above has become annoying, yes, but you are asking the right question. Please swear profusely. Honesty is critical in these hypocritical days. Hearts will be won only if we have the courage to be raw, real, brutally honest, to cut to the bone, because there is too much false shit to wade through. The authors I admire most are Anne Lamott and David James Duncan, who are willing to bend the standard definition of what a Christian looks like, to make room for themselves and all their messiness. That’s the kingdom I want to be a part of, a messy kingdom where God is in love with the folks who don’t give a damn about good behavior, or have drunk too much of that good new wine to keep a tight lip.
Are the earlier preacherly comments from friends of yours? I don’t simply say “fuck ‘em.” I am sorry for them– it’s good to be loved and to be free, to speak the truth in a way others can hear. Speak freely.
mike said,
November 6, 2006 at 3:40 am
Hey Mike,
Great name we share huh, but you’re wrong to diss Aquinas. If you get into it he’s the one who toned down earlier ‘puritain’ ideas of Augustine and other saintly but extreme folk. And since he wrote (13th century) he’s given his fans the strength to resist extremist puritainism of all kinds. He liked to eat and drink too. He’s in the fuckin’ culture man, and a good part of it (Aristotle ain’t so bad either).
Sarah said,
February 15, 2007 at 9:20 pm
The main problem with cussin’ is that it is offensive to Christians and nonChristians alike. These words may not in and of themselves be ‘wrong’ but they are culturally not accepted. Christians are supposed to be different from the world and in this culture at least, these words are considered offensive language. I know nonChristians who know swearing is wrong and it would kill my witness if I swore. They watch us to see how we act and speak. If we aren’t different from the world, what use is our religion?
Cor. 8-9, 11-12
8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Obviously this passage in words refers to the eating of meat and whether it is offense or not. Actually, Paul is giving us a little parable and is saying: “So, maybe something is not exactly considered ‘wrong’ in God’s eyes, but if you do or say something that you know is offense to another believer, you are sinning against them, and thus against Christ. So, don’t even do that thing.”
Paul also says in Cor. 10:23
23All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Now, according to the words and tongue issue, James is great with this topic.
James 1:26-27
26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
So, really READ your Bible and you might actually find that your reasoning is not exactly Biblical but a willful desire of the flesh. What is your reasoning behind swearing? Is it building others up or is it ruining your witness? Aren’t you glad God gave us amazing and intricate minds that actually work?
Sarah
Bridgier said,
February 16, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Yeah Brandon, why can’t you fucking read?
Kevin said,
February 16, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Sarah,
A few points:
1) You’re trying to have this both ways. One minute you’re saying that Christians shouldn’t be like the culture. The next you’re saying that the culture says swearing is bad, so even though it’s not technically wrong, we shouldn’t swear because the culture thinks it’s wrong. Either God determines what is wrong or the culture does. Which is it?
2) I hate to be the one to have to break it to you, but the vast majority of nonChristians don’t care if you swear or not. They just don’t. Swearing in front of nonChristians does not “hurt your witness.” Voting Republican is probably more likely to hurt your witness to nonChristians than swearing. If you don’t know that, you’ve obviously never really been around nonChristians.
3) Interesting that you quote KJV. The KJV has the words whore, prick and piss in it. Many people in the culture would consider those words to be swear words. Care to reconcile that for us?
4) Your view of sin is quite limited. You are like the world in more ways than you realize. You drive a car. You use a bank. You shop at large corporations that exploit other cultures. You wear clothing that was made by children in sweatshops. You pay taxes to a government that does terrible things in your name. You go to a church that wastes much of its monetary resources on a physical building. You own more things than you need, instead of selling those things and giving the money to the poor. Yet you consider swearing to be the offensive, sinful, worldly thing. Why?
wildwest said,
February 17, 2007 at 9:49 am
What is “the world”, anyway?
Jon said,
February 19, 2007 at 3:38 pm
I notice quite a few posts on here that say swearing is okay as long as you don’t offend or speak ill of other Christians. Then in the next sentence they insult the Christian whose post they’re replying to.
I don’t swear for several reasons. One practical one is that it gets you in the habit of using better words. When you get in the habit of swearing you can just throw in those words just about anywhere to describe stuff. When you stop swearing you actually have to think about what you say and pick better words, therefore you speak more intelligently and people will notice that.
Obviously it prevents you from offending people. Some say that it doesn’t offend most people, but when you’re around those who it would offend you’ll have to alter your speech. There will be situations where you let it slip since it’s a habit, or don’t know it offends someone and you’ll be swearing away.
These are a few practical reasons, and I find practical reason for just about every attribute of a Christian lifestyle. If there wasn’t why would God have us act in such ways? He did design the whole system, so I think He would know how it works best.
I’ve already seen some really good scripture posted on here, way more than enough evidence for a believer. Yet I’m shocked to see so many people blast those who back up their argument with God’s Word, and use harsh language in the process!
As for our society or God being a compass on how we should behave. I would hope that our society would coincide with God’s will. Sometimes it does, but in many ways it does not. Therefore we should not look at American society as one entity, because it is divided along many cultural, economic, and religious lines. Society must look to God, and being those who make up the society, we must be looking to God to guide our lives.
-Jon
Oh, and to answer your question wildwest, there are two “the worlds”. One is everyone on the planet, “God so loved the world…” The other is everything that isn’t of God. For example living a life in search of money, pleasure, or power, those are all “worldly” things.
Kevin said,
February 20, 2007 at 9:41 am
Since we’re quoting scripture, let’s look at Philippians 3:8. The KJV has it as:
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ…
The NIV changes dung to rubbish. Many scholars will tell you that in the original language, the word used as dung is closer to the word we know as “shit.”
Or what about Ezekial 23:20:
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
That’s absolutely filthy. Many people, myself included, would find that a lot more offensive that a lot of swear words.
Brandon said,
February 20, 2007 at 6:02 pm
You know Jon, offensive is a funny thing…
You might avoid “curse words” because they might be offensive to some, on the other hand I personally find your misunderstanding of scripture more than offensive. All kinds, eh?
wildwest said,
February 21, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Jon,
One of your two “the worlds” is a noun, and I know what that one is. The other is a verb, and when used as a noun confuses the heck out of me.
denise said,
February 23, 2007 at 11:57 pm
My good friend Valerie– the one who volunteers to host coffee hour, teaches 3-5 yr olds in church school?– suggests that people like us ought to make it a Lenten discipline to drink more. A big glass of wine at four p.m. would make the parenting world a happier and more patient place.
I think the same reverse way: I need to swear more, as a Lenten discipline, to express fury with the world as it is, to articulate to God and to my fellow human beings how hard life sometimes is.
Remind me to tell you of the time I visited my then-fiance for lunch in The Seminary Cafeteria. When I used the word “shit,” every head in the room swivelled in my direction, aghast. I was just beginning to climb up on the table to hiss about “you brood of vipers, whitewashed sepulchres, get off this damned city-on-a-hill and go meet some real people!”– when my rather diplomatic now-husband quickly hustled me out with some sort of bribe or another….
so, whoever you are, SAY IT. Speak honestly. Lay aside pretense, in situations where it hurts no one but the self-righteous. Swear more. It’s Lent, and there’s a world of people in ashes, and they won’t be swayed by nice-ness. This is not about being a better person. It’s about telling the truth as you see it. How else can you communicate your experience? Screening for nice-ness is cowardly.
There have been no fresh Bad Christian posts, alas! Are you okay? You must be doing that other thing, that having-a-life thing…
wildwest said,
February 25, 2007 at 9:57 pm
!!*GASP*!!??!!
Kerry said,
March 1, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Considering that mythology has apparently been around since homo sapiens became homo necans, man the killer, we live in a world where it’s easy to develop agoraphobia. Business might have begun simply because measuring things is a psychological sedative. It puts off the hard task of actually doing something. In fact, it suits the agenda of those who are using mythology to glorify their own misdeeds at the expense of looking after the needy in society. So anyway, people tend to use vehicular means to deal with agoraphobia.
Anything that can be marketed as being vehicular, even via a “carrot on a stick” type of ideology where the next part of the journey will be more fun (maybe even the making up for it - what was the bribe??!!) suits the purposes of those who want people to ignore what’s going on in society.
Psalms 20:7 says:
Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.
I don’t think it’s any coincidence that Nathan the prophet used a poor man to illustrate what was wrong with David and Bathsheba’s actions. Which raises the question, was it just the sin with Bathsheba that was the problem, or had he been ignoring the plight of the needy and oppressed and that’s how come he had so much time to be looking around in the first place? That would explain why his family suffered so much - because they didn’t have an example for that time about how to put the societal concerns first before personal whims.
Kerry