05.11.05
Posted in faith, philosophy at 6:38 pm by
I’ll file this one under ‘What the Fuck?’
Berrien Springs - A teacher at a private Christian school in Berrien Springs has been placed on administrative leave for getting pregnant out of wedlock.
Christine John is a 1st-year teacher at the Village
Seventh-day Adventist Elementary School. She says school officials
asked her why she was 4 months along in her pregnancy when she
had been married just 2 months.
John says school officials told her that premarital sex is an
act strictly forbidden by the school system and the religion. She
was told her services were no longer needed and that she will be on
paid leave until her contract expires.
So, let me get this straight. A girl has sex 2 months prior to her wedding. I’d bet my ass that she was taking her fiance for a quick test drive. Regardless of where you stand on the permissability of pre-marital sex, it happens. If it didn’t happen to you, if you made it, you more than likely did quite a bit of screwing around. So, this couple didn’t ‘make it.’ First off, I think they should be congratulated for making it as long as they did.
Second, and more concerning, when in the name of all that is good and right, did it suddenly become okay to fire someone that you believe committed a sin? Paints you into a pretty tiny little corner, doesn’t it? Fortunately, all those in charge are conspicuously free of all sin. That’s right kids. They’re sinless. It’s a good thing, too. It’d be awful for them to have to let a principal go because he (and I’m guessing they’re ‘he’s’ at this school rather than he or she’s) accidentally was prideful.
Wow. Just wow.
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Posted in faith, philosophy at 6:38 pm by
I’ll file this one under ‘What the Fuck?’
Berrien Springs - A teacher at a private Christian school in Berrien Springs has been placed on administrative leave for getting pregnant out of wedlock.
Christine John is a 1st-year teacher at the Village
Seventh-day Adventist Elementary School. She says school officials
asked her why she was 4 months along in her pregnancy when she
had been married just 2 months.
John says school officials told her that premarital sex is an
act strictly forbidden by the school system and the religion. She
was told her services were no longer needed and that she will be on
paid leave until her contract expires.
So, let me get this straight. A girl has sex 2 months prior to her wedding. I’d bet my ass that she was taking her fiance for a quick test drive. Regardless of where you stand on the permissability of pre-marital sex, it happens. If it didn’t happen to you, if you made it, you more than likely did quite a bit of screwing around. So, this couple didn’t ‘make it.’ First off, I think they should be congratulated for making it as long as they did.
Second, and more concerning, when in the name of all that is good and right, did it suddenly become okay to fire someone that you believe committed a sin? Paints you into a pretty tiny little corner, doesn’t it? Fortunately, all those in charge are conspicuously free of all sin. That’s right kids. They’re sinless. It’s a good thing, too. It’d be awful for them to have to let a principal go because he (and I’m guessing they’re ‘he’s’ at this school rather than he or she’s) accidentally was prideful.
Wow. Just wow.
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rsjm said,
May 11, 2005 at 7:23 pm
Don’t we fire people all the time for committing certain “sins”? The CEO at secular Boeing lost his job for having an affair with a co-worker that the board admitted did not affect business and was consensual.
I’m not agreeing that pre-marital sex at an Adventist school is a worthy offense to be fired but, then again, why is sex with a fellow employee at Boeing either?
Kevin said,
May 11, 2005 at 7:24 pm
I always find the Christian attitude to sex and marriage interesting. To my knowledge there isn’t a verse in the Bible that says you can’t have sex before you get married. What the Bible says is that you should have one mate. (Of course, that’s contradicted by plenty of Old Testament pologamy which seems to be very much condoned.) Those two things aren’t necessarily one and the same.
rsjm said,
May 11, 2005 at 7:33 pm
True, but at least I can see an Adventist school caring about what the Bible says. Boeing, however…
Kyle said,
May 11, 2005 at 7:53 pm
How does this get filed under “WtF”? This is normal operating procedure at these types of schools. I went to a nondenom. “Christian” school through 8th grade, and girls were expelled for getting pregnant; but, without any attempt to help these girls (tutors, etc.), it was so obviously all about image and not any real concern over notions of purity and sin. The principal of the school, the same man who wouldn’t allow us to play with regular playing cards on the bus during a band trip on the weekend (but somehow Uno was OK!), was found to have been having an affair with a teacher about three years after I left the school; much of my current “rebellion” theologically, culturally, politically, etc., from my parents can largely be attributed to reactions against the hypocrisy I saw during those years.
As far as the issue of premarital sex that Kevin highlights, it is interesting to note the historical facts that have become lost to us moderns. In the middle ages, all that was required for two people to be bound in marriage was to pledge that they were married; it helped if there were witnesses to attest to the fact later (in case one party later claimed it never happened), but it wasn’t necessary, and they certainly did not need a church ceremony to seal or bless the union. I see absolutely no difference between what this teacher did and what a medieval couple likely would have done, so I don’t really see the problem, but then I have to remeber that we’re talking about legalistic responses to legalistic rules set by legalistic and starved minds. But we must remember that we can’t actually use rationality or an awareness of our own historically-determined beliefs when dealing with anything serious (of course, almost all people associated with these kinds of schools won’t admit that their Christianity is historically-determined instead of a pristine set of propositions handed to man in its entirety by God himself).
Brandon said,
May 11, 2005 at 10:21 pm
I suppose it gets filed under What the Fuck because it seems entirely contrary to the gospel I know and love. Just because this crap happens all the time in Christian circles doesn’t mean that I have to accept it or become used to it.
The thing about Boeing, etc., is that Boeing wasn’t firing anyone for extra-marital sex, per se. The thing with the Christian school is that the teacher in question was fired because of her sin. That’s hypocrisy to the max unless they’re going to fire each and every one of their employees the next time they commit a sin according to their moral code.
ol cranky said,
May 11, 2005 at 11:32 pm
First off, why does the school know exactly how far along she is (completely ignoring the fact that duration of pregnancy is determined from date of last period which gives a pretty wide margin for error). Second off, don’t they just reinforce a belief that if you get pregnant after schtupping prior to marriage you’d be better off terminating the pregnancy if you have no other means to support yourself and your offspring without the job you’ll lose for getting caught? Would they fire a guy if his wife of 6 months gave birth to what appeared to be a full term baby?
BlondebutBright said,
May 12, 2005 at 5:38 am
I’m not surprised that she was fired. After behaving in such a promiscuous manner, just think of the consequences for her young, impressionable female students! If the school didn’t act as they did, the students would be whoring around in no time. Getting rid of her was a good, strong, moral lesson for those kids: keep your pants on until marriage. If you don’t, not only will you be ostracized from our community, but you also will lose your job.
I second everything Kyle said.
Lara said,
May 12, 2005 at 12:47 pm
Ugh.
Thanks for pointing to this. It’s been an impetus for writing a letter I’ve been meaning to write.
jimmy said,
May 13, 2005 at 9:15 pm
Anyone remember the christian school in Sacramento CA that suspended a 10 year old student a few years back because they found out her mom was a stripper? Same kind of bullshit. WTF!?!?!
Kristi said,
May 14, 2005 at 11:51 pm
I’m surprised that no one has addressed the issue of business practice here. Take away the name “Christian” from the school and you still have a fully functioning business and business standard. Regardless of how she felt about it, she did sign on the dotted line, like everyone who signs contracts stating that she agreed with the poilicies upheld by the school.
If you stole from your company, would you expect to be put on PAID leave? Factory workers frequently have their urine tested for drug use. Why is that not an issue? Isn’t that forcing a moral code on their workers? Just because a company has a moral code doesn’t mean that those who have to enforce that code are faining perfection–they are merely upholding a standard that has been agreed on by all those who willingly chose to be a part of that organization. Call it what you want–I feel bad for her situation, but I have to wonder why she worked for them in the first place if she obviously didn’t agree with their standards??
Brandon said,
May 15, 2005 at 12:48 pm
Kristi,
The problem with your argument is that firing someone for a legal code breach (e.g. your drug example) is different than firing them for a moral code breach (e.g. pre-marital sex as a sin.)
You’re making a moral code equal to a legal code and that doesn’t work logically.
The issue is that the moral code that the school cites in her dismissal, is a moral code that by the definition of Christianity–no one lives up to. Not her superiors, not anyone. Nobody is perfect. Thus, it seems patently hypocritical to fire someone for committing a sin–which is what the news article implies.
Of course, we don’t know the whole situation; however, given the publicity of this dismissal had there been ancillary reasons for the removal of the teacher in question, it would’ve seemed to behoove the administration of the school to mention those mitigating circumstances.
sA said,
May 15, 2005 at 5:52 pm
…as if a piece of paper and some mineral-plated rings make two people any more married than they already were before the actual civil service. If two people get married, they were already “married” before the service, paper, and rings.
Kristi said,
May 16, 2005 at 10:06 am
Brandon,
Don’t all of our “laws” stem from a moral code? A look at the ten commandments and one will see that the moral code that is in place has been used in determining laws in other countries for years. Why is it wrong to kill? That is a moral issue. How about stealing? What makes stealing wrong? What about lying? There is no legal issue there unless it is under oath. But most people still think it’s wrong to lie. Would it be safe to say that someone who lies to their employer could be fired? It does state that on all applications that I have ever filled out (for non-Christian corporations). Is it hard to not lie? For some it really is, so should they keep their job if they lie about their degree (recent news with all the fake diplomas) because it is difficult for them to tell the truth?
I guess the point that I’m getting at is that with the exceptions of the laws regarding God in the ten commandments, most of the others are already included into our system of government since we were a nation founded on those principles. And even though the laws regarding sex before marriage are not taken seriously anymore, some states still have them on the books. Did you hear about the female police officer who was recently asked to move out from living with her boyfriend or lose her job because that was the law in her town? And her job had no “moral” code to sign to when she accepted her job.
I do know that some people have “made it” without having sex before marriage. It is HARD, but it’s still possible, and not everyone makes it. At what point do we allow moral groups to govern what takes place within their own businesses? After all, I would assume that the expectation and outcome are clearly stated, and it is always a persons choice to work there. I will agree, the school does come off looking bad, but I still don’t understand why she chose to work for a company that she didn’t agree with–aren’t there opportunities in the public school system?
Jacob said,
May 17, 2005 at 8:34 am
Kristi, I don’t mean to point this out, but our laws do not stem directly from our morals, nor should they. Murder is not illegal because there’s a commandment, but because it causes demonstrable harm to the society as a whole. When a crime is committed, the state represents the complaint because the crime is assumed to have damaged the entire citizenry, not just the victim. Based on that standard, the courts have taken to overturning laws when violation of those laws does not manifestly damage the society. For example, look to the Lawrence v. Texas case where laws banning homosexual sex were declared unconstitutional because the state had no legitimate interest in stopping the practice. The laws in NC, and elsewhere, wioll soon be subject to the same test, and it is very likely that they will fail as well. If and only if the society is damaged through an act can that act be made illegal. That standard, not any particular, individual, moral code is the basis for law.
Karen said,
May 17, 2005 at 10:18 am
Altho the apostle Paul warns us in the New Testament to “Flee fornication” (sex outside of marriage), the reason for ‘churches, pastors, teachers, etc… is for the ‘edifying of the saints of God to mature them and help them in their ‘work of the ministry’….
We don’t know the whole situation, of course, but my opinion is that the school, being a part of Christ’s great commission, needs to extend the forgiveness and love that the simple gospel of Christ is founded on…
I am sorry for the treatment of the woman, but I can only say that God forgives and forgets, unlike the majority of those who name the name of Christ…
We do have a responsibility before our Lord to ‘walk a straight path, and be good examples to others, but I haven’t met a PERFECT Christian yet in this world. It would be more glorifying to the Lord to extend a helping hand and have understanding and compassion for this girl, rather than cause bitterness and wounds in the name of Christ…
Nate said,
May 17, 2005 at 11:04 am
I think you are assuming that this woman is repentant. Need she be repentant for having sex with the man she had most likely been engaged to for some months? For me, I don’t want to have sex outside of marriage, but I agree with what others have said - the Bible makes it clear only that it should be between one man and woman, and I don’t think this translates into the legalism of only after the wedding day.
To Brandon, I’m struggling a bit with the idea that no one should be fired for sin. Yes, we all sin, and all sin is equal. But if a teacher were found to be a prostitute, or someone who had sex with animals in her spare time might we be a little more understanding of her being fired? I think it’s clear that we don’t see all sin as equal, and I don’t know if we should in situations like this. I could be wrong.
CD said,
May 19, 2005 at 6:18 pm
Since when is it a school’s business how many months pregnant any of it’s teacher’s (or their wives) is? 4 months pregnant -isn’t even showing- yet! And it’s not like most of the kids were probably “clued in” enough to figure it out anyway. Also, what about Mary Magdalene??!!
I really think Adventists are against women and against pregnancy. I went to SDA schools. They kicked girls out for getting pregnant, but not the boys who got them pregnant. This forced several girls to have abortions rather than lose their education. Again, the boys were never even scolded. The message sent is anti-baby, not anti-premarital-sex.
This school should have set the GOOD EXAMPLE of her husband making an honest woman of her by marrying her. Most of the kids in our schools ARE screwing around, and most of the boys will never marry the girls. Rather than firing her, they should have made her get up in front of everyone and explain why what she did was wrong (because he might not have married her after all, and this would have potentially put her in a low-financial-class situation). What a missed opportunity! Someone young enough that the kids could relate to, and what do they do? They was their hands of her instead of using her to reach those kids who were having sex or were about to have sex, to try to make them think first.
She should sue them for sexual harassment, and should challenge the legality of any virgin-till-marriage contract she may have signed (that I’ll bet no men have to sign), and whether or not such an act on the school’s part is constitutional (I’ll bet it isn’t, as she was indeed in the pursuit of happiness!).
What’s really hypocritical is that they will kick out a woman for being found after her wedding to be pregnant, and they won’t do a darn thing to clean up the filthy forms of “entertainment” they provide their students with during school-sanctioned functions (banquets, Saturday night socials, etc.).
You know, this is why I don’t go to church and I would never send my kid to an SDA school. They ask everyone else to be perfect but themselves. It’s not that these people are “sinless” it’s that they make all kinds of excuses for what they do, and “baptize” everything they do. They know they are wrong, but, but, but… There’s ALWAYS an excuse, for themselves that is.
Also, has it occurred to them that maybe she didn’t know any better than to allow the love of her life to “relieve” himself in her, because our school system failed her by not helping her see the beauty of true purity? If she had been taught never to allow anyone to even kiss her until her wedding day, her fiancée’ would never have gotten turned on and talked her into giving herself to him early. What a selfish SOB, but she had to marry him to save face and to give her baby a name (could it be that her pregnancy was why they got married???) It’s our schools that failed her, because they didn’t convince her to wait for marriage. They are lucky that she even was willing to teach in their schools, and now they want to dismiss her! Our schools suck, in general, as even the education is second-rate (due to lack of funding for brand new books each year, enough computers, hiring of good teachers rather than second-class teachers with bad attitudes, etc.) I would never send my kid to an SDA school. I’m just not that naive.
j. said,
September 6, 2005 at 3:42 am
Hi. Raised SDA, have lived in Berrien Springs since I was little, and let me tell you firsthand, SDAs are FUCKED UP. I mean I know good people but good people are everywhere, the rest are pious hypocrites who can all blow me. I went through their education system as well and they’re about as good at practicing what they preach as heroin addicts are at not fucking up their lives. I didn’t know about this before but now that I do I googled it and found the WNDU article. I’m half tempted to print copies up and put them up all over town as flyers. Hit me up at checkpawn at yahoo dot com if you want to discuss this. This looks like an interesting site, I’ll be sure to keep an eye on it.